まで Expressions

Table of Contents

This page explains some common expressions/usages of まで

てまで – To go so far as to…
までだ – Only have to
までもない – Don’t even have to
ないまでも – Even if you can’t/don’t

てまで

To go so far as to
I wouldn’t go that far/You would even go so far as to…
Verb て Form + まで
する Noun + までして

てまで means “going so far as to… It places stress on doing some extreme action that is too extreme or unnecessary for a goal.
(I wouldn’t go that far)

てまで implies an action is too extreme, and therefore carries a nuance of surprise and may be used in questioning.
(You would even go so far as to…?)

Too Extreme + てまで + Goal + ない or か (Almost always when non-past)

In some past tense cases, てまで may be used in the affirmative about what (unfortunately) had to be done.

てまで tends to be preferred over てでも with past tense sentences.

Comparison to てでも

I would appreciate feedback on this section.

Unlike てでも, てまで tends to be used with negative (ない) or interrogative sentences.
It very commonly pairs with たいとは思わない, or a question word.
てでも tends to be used for affirmative expressions of resolve.
てまで tends to be used for giving an extreme case that you reject or for expressing surprise/questions about an extreme.
Source 1 (Best), Source 2, Source 3

One source suggests てまで is used for thinks the speaker thinks unnecessary

金を借りてまで車を買いたい✖ (Needs to be negative)
金を借りてまで車を買いたくない○
金を借りてでも車を買いたい○
金を借りてでも車を買いたいとは思わない△ (Sounds better with まで)
金を借りてまで車を買いたいとは思わない○
金を借りてでも車を買った ✖ (Even if I have to borrow money, I bought a car)
金を借りてでも車を買いたかった ○ (てでも is ok with たかった)
金を借りてまで車を買った ○ (Didn’t want to, but that’s what I had to do)

Examples

人を殺してまで手に入れたいとは思わない
I wouldn’t go as far as to kill someone for it. (Surprised you’d ask)
犯罪をしてまで金をもらいたいとは思っていない
I don’t want money enough to go as far as to break the law.
借金をしてまでアメリカに行きたくない
I don’t want to go to America enough to borrow money.
家族と絆をきってまで彼女と結婚した
I even went as far as to cut ties with my family in order to marry her.
(Implies you didn’t want to do it, but you had to).

までだ

Only, Only have to
Plain form verb + までだ

までだ simply means “Only” or “We only need to..”.
It stresses the high degree of ease or naturalness of an action.
It implies that something is not a problem or no trouble at all.

May appear as までのことだ (More emphasis)
Essentially the same as だけだ or だけのことだ.

Examples

頑張るまでだ
All we have to do is try. (implies trying is easy)
失敗したら謝るまでだ
If you make a mistake, all you have to do is apologize
当然のことをしたまでのことだ
I only did what was natural. (Common expression)
終電に間に合わなかったらタクシーで帰るまでだ
If I miss the last train, all I have to do is go home by taxi.
彼女を守ったまでのことだったから、お礼はいい。
I was just protecting my girlfriend so you don’t need to thank me.

までもない

No need to/Don’t even have to
Dictionary form verb + までもない

までもない means “There is no need to”.
It is the opposite of the “Only need to” meaning of までだ.

It only works with the dictionary form of verbs.

言うまでもない (There’s no need to mention it) is a very common expressions using までもない.

Examples

N5なら勉強するまでもないでしょう
If its N5 you don’t even really need to study do you?
言うまでもないが、お客様を殴ったりしてはいけない
There’s no need to say it, but don’t do things like hit the guests.
お客様を殴ったから首になったことは言うまでもない
He hit a guest, so it goes without saying that he was fired.
彼を信じるまでもなく、本人が自白した。
There was no need to believe him, the person in question confessed.

ないまでも

Even if you don’t
ない form word + までも
Nouns + でないまでも

ないまでも means “Even if you don’t/can’t”
It is typically used to state a good alternative to the best case scenario.

(Unachieved) Ideal + ないまでも + Slightly less than ideal statement

Typically used with negative potential form verbs.
If used with a non-potential form verb, it takes on a negative potential meaning anyway.

Examples

完璧だとは言えないまでも、すごかった
Even if I can’t say it was perfect, it was amazing.
電話しないまでも、メールやメッセージを送るべきだ
Even if you don’t (can’t) call, you should send an email or a message.
懐石料理が食べないまでも酒や会話は楽しめる
Even if you don’t/can’t eat traditional Japanese food, you can still enjoy alcohol and conversation.
会えないまでもメッセージやビデオチャットはできる
Even if we can’t meet, we can still message each other or video chat.